According to the medical community Paedophilia is an inherited condition caused by certain genes that are passed from the parent.
So should we be condemning these people? Should we not be trying to 'Understand' and 'help' them?
The general feeling of those who have this question posed to them is this ' put them all on an island in the Muldives and leave them there' or 'shoot them' or 'castrate them'.
Statistics say that one quarter of all males will have some 'Feelings of arousal' connected with children,and while we all know that statistics are just Government figures worked out on the basis of actual crimes and projected future crimes,it is a worrying thought that there are so many 'potential' offenders out there.
As a genetic condition there is no actual 'cure' which means that while it can be 'treated' offenders cannot be rehabilitated and are more likely to reoffend than not.
So what is Paedophilia? and when does it become a 'crime'.
Paedophilia is described as..Attraction to children,the attraction is always sexual in connotation and the meaning is restricted to the sexual feelings of an adult for a child.
When does it become a crime then? When they first get the 'feelings'? When they first log on to the 'sites' that feed thier fantasies? or when they commit that first act against a child?
Should we be feeling sorry for them?
Switzerland have come up with a programme to deal with offenders,which while it may seem drastic is thier way of dealing with it,apparently thier offenders are placed together in a prison that is just for this type of offence,reoffending leads to medical castration and long terms in this 'prison' perhaps not the ideal answer,but many 'offenders' have asked for castration to help stop them from commiting these 'crimes'.
I have my own personal views on this subject but would be interested in hearing others.Even the ones that just say 'Shoot the ***'
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- 2006-02-01 @ 10:52:29
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- 2006-02-01 @ 11:29:55
In my opinion, I can’t think of anything worse. It becomes a crime when, an adult taking the innocence of a child and uses it for there own sexual gratification. Its abuse of the worse kind....it makes me so angry...just thinking about it brings tears to my eyes. Now that I’m a Mum I think about it a lot more.
"When I was 18 Brad was 11 so can you imagine the uproar if I'd have felt for him then what I feel for him now? Now that I'm 32 and he's 25 it's not wrong. Would be wrong of 60y/o to be attracted to a 21y/o? This 60y/o had probably been in relationships, full time employment, become a parent all before this 21y/o was born!"
The difference is the 25 year old and the 21 year old are both consenting adults, who are old enough to know their own minds.
A child can be easily manipulated into doing things, that an adult may tell them is ok...I have got a lot more to say on this subject, but I’ll need to take some time to properly think through what I need to say, or it’ll all just come out as mubel-jumbel
Why should people who do anything to harm children get a second chance.....especially when, like you say, most will reoffend and show no remorse
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lyndlj
- 2006-02-01 @ 12:01:42
You raise some interesting questions,when does it become Paedaphilia,the presumption is that you are a child in a sexual way untill you are sixteen when it then becomes legal to partake in sexual activity.We all know this to be not so.Different children develop at a different pace,while some are still playing with dolls at twelve others are discovering boys,same for boys,as they begin puberty they find they have all sorts of 'feelings' they didn`t have before.
Your 18 year old scenario,how many young girls of fourteen look,dress and act older? If the feeling your 18 year old has is just for the one is it in fact Paedaphilia or the natural feelings of a male towards a female? Who denotes what is the difference?
(I am using male/female scenarios here but this also counts for same sex scenarios too.)
The theory is that most Paedophiles are only attracted to prepubic children,which would be under twelves.-
- 2006-02-01 @ 13:50:40
What a brave discussion. I think most paedophiles are attracted to pre-pub. children as they see them as non-threatening - they can't, for whatever reasons, have a normal relationship (even if they are suppposed to be in one). The downside of the media attention on this, is that it is difficult to even say hello to a child now without worrying you might be thought a danger to them. God knows what would happen to the gay man who used to give me rolos (with my father looking on I might add) as a child. He was well known in the area but I don't remember anyone seeing him as a threat to children who often used to stop to stroke his two lovely dogs.
And are we going to bring up a generation of children who will not be able to talk to strangers?-
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lyndlj
- 2006-02-01 @ 14:09:00
And there we come to another aspect of the discussion,the Media,but,it is only high profile cases that end up in the papers and on the news programmes.When I was younger gay men were looked upon as unnatural,I could never understand that,my brother was gay,he was just the same person when he came out as he was before. The point being that mothers would remove thier children from his presence because being gay he had to have unnatural thoughts about them?? Yet the majority of Paedophiles are deemed to be Hetrosexual?
Were you aware that there is a site on the web that is classed as a help site for Paedophiles?there are no pictures on this site,it is designed as a place where people can go and discuss thier fantasies about children and get the support of fellow members.
This site is run by a twenty three year old male,I questioned him about what he would do if he found one of his members had actually commited a crime against children.After a few evasive answers he declared that he would if it was within his power to do so,report this person for thier crime.However I had to push him into that answer.
The membership of this site runs into the thousands!!
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- 2006-02-01 @ 14:19:05
I'm never quite sure why gay men should be considered a greater danger to children than straights. I think on the BBC they mentioned a Paedophilia is okay organisation in Denmark. I don't want to look it up - as that does seem to me pretty sick. I don't see how it can be justified. We don't have to give in to all our urges as humans surely ?
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- 2006-02-01 @ 16:19:28
I totally agree, about the fact we don't have to give in to our urges. If I ever had the urge to do anything to a child, sexually exploit them in anyway, I would seek help before not after....its ok being remorseful after such a terrible act, but are they remorseful for the right reasons, or just cause they've been caught?.
But I am aware there is a grey area like you mentioned about 14 year olds looking and acting older than they are, but nowadays children of 11 and 12 even younger can look 16 or older...where do you draw a line. I think if an adult knowingly (sometimes a young girl may lie about her age) sexually exploits a child, then this is wrong. A 14 year old is still a child, it doesn't matter how old they look or act, they are still children, and adults should protect them, if that means shooting all paedophilias then that’s what we should do.
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- 2006-02-01 @ 16:24:37
Also, I don't think you have to physically touch a child to be a paedophile. I think looking at websites just adds to the abuse of children. Children are abused for the purpose of these websites.
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lyndlj
- 2006-02-01 @ 16:29:49
Quite true we or they dont have to give in to urges and information gleaned from this site shows that there are many who fight these urges,but for how long?
And you are correct a fourteen year old is still a child,the trouble is that todays society encourages them to look and act older.Though as stated the majority of Paedophiles do prefer prepubic children,they are easier to manipulate and less likely to speak out and against an offender. -
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lyndlj
- 2006-02-01 @ 12:17:10
In a some cases the offenders are actually remorseful,and beg medical intervention to stop them from repeating the offence.
As for designer babies stopping the possibility of the passing on of the Gene,first you have to identify the Gene that is being passed on.
Is the 'discovery' of it being a genetic problem the Medical communities way of saying we dont know what makes them do this?
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Here is a subject I am concerend about. Because I am a teacher. The problem is this. It only takes one accusation from one kid and you are tarred!. It happens. I ahve seen it happen to frineds of mine. And then you end up thinking "Did they?" -I am guilty of thinking such things. I have seen people destroyed. Not nice.
Also I read one article once that said ther were hundreds of innocent people locked up in prisons because of the law. Whether this is true I dont know-
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lyndlj
- 2006-02-01 @ 19:51:48
It is hard not to think it,the old adage of 'where theres smoke' and even if you think you know that person really well,it isn`t the sort of thing that even your best friend would tell you really is it?
I dont know about hundreds of innocents being in prison,but there are some.
Teachers have to be so careful especially now in light of recent events,it can only serve to make thier job harder.
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- 2006-02-08 @ 13:30:07
It's a problem for Foster carers too. Any allegations, even if categorically proved to be untrue, remail on a permanent record. It only takes one false allegation to put a whole different slant on the Carer's record.
The next time there is an allegation made, if there is already one on record, it looks bad.-
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lyndlj
- 2006-02-08 @ 13:35:27
All allegations are problematic,for whoever they are made against as you say they stay on your records so trying then to get a job in the public or care sector is going to be quite hard.
One of the problems however is that many employers dont investigate records,I ended up working in a nursing home with a guy that had been charged with sexual assault offences,he was never investigated by the firm,he was eventually found out but only because someone was vigalent.
When the allegations are false it can affect the innocent person to the degree that they no longer want to work in that capacity,which is damaging not only to them but everyone around them. -
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- 2006-02-07 @ 06:11:21
A worrying news item:
BT sounds child web porn warning
The number of attempts to view illegal child pornography on the web has risen sharply since 2004, according to BT.
The company has a system to block sites carrying indecent images of children and over the past four months it has been thwarting 35,000 hits each day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4687904.stm-
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lyndlj
- 2006-02-07 @ 13:20:23
One of the main problems,which brings us back to media representation,is that because over the past years Paedaphilia has been in the forefront of the media with such high profile people being sent to prison etc,that it seems to be attracting rather than repelling people to these sites??
Or does it just seem that way because there are now more safeguards and statistics are now available where they weren`t before? -
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- 2006-02-08 @ 13:27:07
Hmmm as everyone else has already said, this is a difficult subject.
I am quite sure that in the same way I am gay, paedophiles didn't make a choice as to who they are attracted to, and it must cause huge personal conflict to be told that your feelings are wrong, immoral, outrageous...the same way it would done have for me if I had been born when homosexuality was a crime.
I am not saying I think that it is OK for people to have sexual thoughts about children, but as long as they stay as fantasies, there's not much that can be done. Surely it is not a crime to have thoughts about, well, anything. Who hasn't thought about robbing a bank, or something like that. If we were to punish people for their thoughts, I would be very very punished! Even if we were to punish thoughts, how would we police it? I think we can safely put this little section to one side.
The real problem arises when people act on their fantasies. Even when a paedophile has groomed a child to the point that they are a willing participant, it is wrong. No two ways about it. A pre-pubescent child is not equipped physically or emotionally for sex of any kind. Unless the adult is mentally disabled, they know that this is not acceptable behaviour. But you could argue that for someone to act on these fantasies, there has got to be something not right in their heads!
But then I think that this is exactly how people would have viewed me 50 years ago. And some people still do. You can't get away from the fact that I am having sex with a consenting adult though.
I have often thought that chemical castration is the best solution for rapists, and I think it is quite suitable for paedophiles too. And it should be used from the first offence. Harsh but that's how I feel. But what about female paedophiles?
Last but not least, I think that there is no way for someone who does not have feelings of attraction to children to understand someone who does. Lets get some paedophiles to give their view!
Sorry, this is a bit disjointed but I'm at work and can't concentrate properly! -
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lyndlj
- 2006-02-08 @ 13:45:44
I have discussed this with some Paedophiles,I cannot place what they said Hippocratic oath and all that,but I will say that there are many more out there than you think,that will never act on thier fantasies because they would not harm a child no matter what thier other feelings are.As I have stated there is a site where these people can go to talk out thier fantasies and desires and come to terms with what and who they are. When I first came across this site and had 'dealings' with its Administrator/web master,I was worried that he was very young to be running a site of this magnitude,and this kind of subject.But,I spent time on the site and spoke with him and questioned him,and for the majority it is a good thing as it helps to prevent them from acting out thier fantasies,they are guided and advised,the rest is up to them.
I dont condone Paedaphilia,in any way,but it exists and the best thing to do is to learn about it in order to be able to deal with it. -
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Juzzzy
- http://juzzzy.blog.co.uk
- 2006-02-09 @ 12:41:02
When Caroline Hogg was abducted from Portobello in Scotland (a seaside resort) in 1983, there was of course a massive search of the area.
Caroline had last been seen at a fairground near to the promenade, and as part of their inquiries police asked anyone who had been on or near to the beach that day and had taken photographs (of their families, say) to send them in.
Thanks yo the people who responded with their pictures, police identified 15 men with sex offence convictions/suspicions caught unaware on the holiday snaps.
But none one of them was Robert Black, eventually captured and convicted as the killer.
What to do paedophiles? Really, who knows? There are so many of them out there it frightens me.-
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lyndlj
- 2006-02-09 @ 13:11:16
It is a problem that isn`t going to go away,as you say there are many more than people think.And many that have been arrested/questioned with regards to crimes like this that we never hear about. It seems to be if your not famous or the child isn`t killed it doesn`t count as newsworthy.
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- 2009-01-31 @ 04:52:08
Hi,
Thanks so much for starting this thread. I haven't time to read all the responses right now but I will later.
In the mean time I want to point out that it's really hard to find thoughtful discussion on this that doesn't become very ugly, very quickly. I know its an emotive subject, but many of the responses like "i'd like to see their eyes removed, then have them suffer a slow painful death" (from another site) really amaze me. Most of these people haven't been harmed themselves by paedaphilia, and I challenge whether these strong feelings are actually entirely altruistic... ie they seem to come from a place that is not directed necessarily at the best interests of the child.
This for me is always the starting point. What, in the long term and the short term, will help protect children? Turning paedaphilic people into monsters that are inhuman and even demonic cannot be the answer. This will scare our children, and also push paedaphilia into a place where it cannot be easily seen, monitored and contained.
If you are right, and I suspect you are, that about one in four adult males have had some sexual thoughts about children, then it is absolutely vital that our society understands what is the difference between these 25%, and the people who commit the paedaphilic crimes and damage children. There must be some sort of process, or sliding scale between these and we need to talk about all these people without writing any of them off as monsters.
I'm not advocating that paedaphilic crime is "ok". But the absence of serious debate is worrying. Its seems almost a competition at times between who can muster the most outrage and hate towards paedaphiles, as if it makes you a more moral person, or helps to protect children.
I think it does neither. We need to get this sort of debate more "out in the open", and shed some sunlight on this worrying topic.
Thanks,
Mark. -
- 2009-02-12 @ 15:32:34
I have read all of your comments regarding this subject and I have my own view, just like many other people. The only difference being is that I was cautioned for having child pornography on my computer.
I can understand what you are feeling right now, after just ready my last statement but please let me explain. I DON'T LIKE BEING THE WAY I AM. I CAN'T STAND IT AND NEED / WANT HELP. I couldn't bare the thought of touching a child but find myself looking for pictures on the net. I hate the feeling it gives me as as I know that even looking is seriously wrong. I say I need and want help, but there is no help out there. I can't talk to any one about how I feel, how I wish I was normal, the only option out there for me is to keep it quiet, and if any one found out who I am, I would kill myself before they got to me.
I have a child of my own, 2 years old he will be in April. If any one thought of abusing my child, I would string him / her alive. At the same time, I am hoping and praying to god that peadophilia isn't genetic, and my Son turns out perfectly normal.
I don't expect everyone that reads this to sympathis with me, and am expecting some very horrible comments back. But please, try and understand that I didn't ask for this, I didn't choose for me to be this way, I would do any thing to make this go away if there was help out there. I hate the word peadophile, it makes my skin crawl. Hearing the stories that you see on the news about this subject makes me angry. I can't make this go away, but if people knew how I feel, how many other people like myself feel then maybe some help could be provided.
Now give me your worst, I deserve it after all.-
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lyndlj
- 2009-02-13 @ 22:46:35
There is an email address on my profile page, you are free to use it.
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- http://www.dailymail.co.uk
- 2009-03-18 @ 09:26:25
Trace victims of British Sex Hoilday crimes
Sex beast Tim Ireland from Bloggerhead.com has over the last year's been insulting reporters from some of the top newspapers,it's now official Tim has a record as long as his arm for child sex offences.Tim run's www.bloggerhead.com .And was arrested 5 year's ago for Sex abroad with a young girl but was deported back to the UK.Due to ill health. lately he has attacked the Daily Mail Newspaper who are looking for Tim Irelands victims.here is talk that he had Sex with children as young as 9 years old in Thailand .
Tim Ireland who run's bloggerhead.com is also thought to have loaded picture of child porn for his sick friends to view from his many trips abroad on a private link on his site.They were remove before police tried to view the sites index.His I.S.P. also may have link's to the sex trade and hard core porn.If you have any information on Tim please ring the news desk or if you would like to just let Tim know what you think of sex crimes in Thailand info coming soon............PLEASE HELP BY POSTING THIS ON AS MANY FORUMS IN Thailand!
Any info on Tims victims please contact your local police or the news desk.Editorial
News and features - 020 7938 6000 or news@dailymail.co.uk.
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- http://www.dailymail.co.uk
- 2009-03-22 @ 22:41:47
Trace victims of British Sex Holiday crimes
Sex beast Tim Ireland from Bloggerhead.com has over the last year's been insulting reporters from some of the top newspapers,it's now official Tim has a record as long as his arm for child sex offences.Tim run's www.bloggerhead.com .And was arrested 5 year's ago for Sex abroad with a young girl but was deported back to the UK.Due to ill health. lately he has attacked the Daily Mail Newspaper who are looking for Tim Irelands victims.here is talk that he had Sex with children as young as 9 years old in Thailand .
Tim Ireland who run's bloggerhead.com is also thought to have loaded picture of child porn for his sick friends to view from his many trips abroad on a private link on his site.They were remove before police tried to view the sites index.His I.S.P. also may have link's to the sex trade and hard core porn.If you have any information on Tim please ring the news desk or if you would like to just let Tim know what you think of sex crimes in Thailand info coming soon............PLEASE HELP BY POSTING THIS ON AS MANY FORUMS IN Thailand!
Any info on Tim's victims please contact your local police or the news desk.Editorial
News and features - 020 7938 6000 or news@dailymail.co.uk.Or Crime Stoppers 0800 555 111 -
- 2009-03-26 @ 16:48:43
Trace victims of British Sex Holiday crimes
Sex beast Tim Ireland from Bloggerhead.com has over the last year's been insulting reporters from some of the top newspapers,it's now official Tim has a record as long as his arm for child sex offences.Tim run's www.bloggerhead.com .And was arrested 5 year's ago for Sex abroad with a young girl but was deported back to the UK.Due to ill health. lately he has attacked the Daily Mail Newspaper who are looking for Tim Irelands victims.here is talk that he had Sex with children as young as 9 years old in Thailand .
Tim Ireland who run's bloggerhead.com is also thought to have loaded picture of child porn for his sick friends to view from his many trips abroad on a private link on his site.They were remove before police tried to view the sites index.His I.S.P. also may have link's to the sex trade and hard core porn.If you have any information on Tim please ring the news desk or if you would like to just let Tim know what you think of sex crimes in Thailand info coming soon............PLEASE HELP BY POSTING THIS ON AS MANY FORUMS IN Thailand!
Any info on Tim's victims please contact your local police or the news desk.Editorial
News and features - 020 7938 6000 or news@dailymail.co.uk.Or Crime Stoppers 0800 555 111
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- 2009-06-09 @ 16:43:55
I must take objection to the idea that paedophilia is necessarilly inherited (i.e. genetic). Paedophilia, like homosexuality,heterosexuality, trangender, etc. is a social construct created by people calling themselves psychiatrists and psychologist. The paraphilias - under whose heading paedophilia is subsumed - are also social constructs: schemas constructed to allow us to understand the world better. As such, they are fallible and very much a product of their time. The paraphilias were created by a 19th century western European society obsessed with sexuality and its control. Paedophilia is just a label put on people as a way of controlling them - like calling someone a witch in middle-ages Europe.
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lyndlj
- 2009-06-09 @ 16:55:41
The word Peadophilia is a label yes, but humans label everything in order that they not be confused with other things. It is the condition that makes people sexually abuse children that is thought to be genetic.
All you have done is attack labels, not proved that a condition cannot be genetic, or generated a reasonable argument as to why they cannot be genetic. -
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- 2009-08-14 @ 02:26:15
All people who think paedophillia or homosexuality are genetic, both things are related to an individuals thought process, and all thoughts no matter how delapotated they are can be changed. STAND FOR SOMETHING OR FALL FOR EVERYTHING. Think about it.
What a thought-provoking subject.
One thing I don't understand is when does it become paedophilia? If a an 18y/o has an attraction to 14y/o is this considered wrong? When I was 18 Brad was 11 so can you imagine the uproar if I'd have felt for him then what I feel for him now? Now that I'm 32 and he's 25 it's not wrong. Would be wrong of 60y/o to be attracted to a 21y/o? This 60y/o had probably been in relationships, full time employment, become a parent all before this 21y/o was born!
The idea of paedophilia makes me feel physically sick but I'm all for helping them but I question how much help there is. How do you stop it?
In the future, with the whole idea of designer babies, it may be possible to take away the "gene" that creates these people but that won't help the sitaution now.
As for blaming the parents I think this comes down to the nature and nurture factor. Personally I don't believe it inherent which means it must be nurture but why would anyone nurture this kind of behaviour into children.
I'll comment again in a bit but I need to think more about this subject as I'm finding it quite difficult to think of an argument that doesn't involve saying "shoot them all!"